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 Question about "Croix de Guerre" and other crosses

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victor2
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Age: 47
Localisation: Russie
Thème: Different beautiful awards
Date d'inscription: 11/08/2010
Nombre de messages: 45

MessageSujet: Question about "Croix de Guerre" and other crosses   Lun 23 Aoû - 17:44

Good evening coucou2
Awarding methods in France sometimes differ from habitual to me.
I cannot understand precisely sense of delivery of "Croix de Guerre".
What is "citation à l’ordre"? Is it the text with the praise announcement?
Is there a "citation" the award, and a cross only a symbol of this "citation"?
The literal translation to Russian does not let me know that the "citation" means.
In Russian it means 'a part of the text from any source', not any award.
I hope, I have clearly asked a question Embarassed
Best regards,
Victor.


Dernière édition par victor2 le Mar 24 Aoû - 3:35, édité 1 fois
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Bison
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Date d'inscription: 03/09/2006
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MessageSujet: Re: Question about "Croix de Guerre" and other crosses   Lun 23 Aoû - 18:16

Hi Victor and everybody,

I will be as most simple as I can. Dictionaries are very poor for military business.

Soldiers (or sometimes civilians) could be held up as an example of bravery or gallantry for a specific or several actions in the field. That is what we call "citer" in French (the result is a paper, with the "citation" written on it).
That means to hold up a soldier in front of the troops and tell everybody what was the action. For example, during WWI, some "citations" were also published in the newspapers.

Then, there is a graduation in this honour pending the valour of bravery or the importance of the results of the action :
- at the regiment level (à l'ordre du régiment) = croix de guerre with a bronze star
- at the brigade level = same as regiment level
- at the division level = croix de guerre with a silver star
- at the corps level = croix de guerre with a gilt star
- at the army level = croix de guerre with a palm.

Therefore the star or the palm is the symbol of the "citation". Only one cross is worn, with the succession of stars and palms pinned on the ribbon... Some heroes have had a 30 cm long ribbon to place all the stars and palms!

At the highest level the Légion d'honneur or the Médaille militaire could also be awarded along with the "citation".

I hope this helps you.
Regards
Bison
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victor2
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Age: 47
Localisation: Russie
Thème: Different beautiful awards
Date d'inscription: 11/08/2010
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MessageSujet: Re: Question about "Croix de Guerre" and other crosses   Lun 23 Aoû - 18:50

Hello once more!
Thanks, Bizon.
The idea becomes some clearly to me. But the sequence is unusual for me.
As I understand the first award is "citation" - "honour" stated orally or on a paper.
And the cross stands out as a reminder on this honour.
Right?
coucou2


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Bison
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MessageSujet: Re: Question about "Croix de Guerre" and other crosses   Lun 23 Aoû - 19:00

Hello

Yes, it is given orally at the moment of the delivery AND a paper is given.
The first citation gives the cross, with one palm or one star on the ribbon as mentioned above.
After that, for each subsequent citation, another cross is delivered with the according star or palm.

However, on the uniform or suit, only one cross is worn, but with all the stars and palms on the ribbon. Don't ask me why, it is the way it is...

As a result, you cannot find a cross without one star or palm on the ribbon, or it is a brand new one coming from a stock without being delivered to anybody.

Yours
Bison
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FX
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MessageSujet: Re: Question about "Croix de Guerre" and other crosses   Lun 23 Aoû - 19:08

Hello Victor,

Before 2004, a soldier could receive a citiation for a non combat action, the citation was only a paper. Now this citation is materialised by a star or palm on the ribbon of the gold national defense medal.

_________________
Cordialement,

François-Xavier
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Bison
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MessageSujet: Re: Question about "Croix de Guerre" and other crosses   Lun 23 Aoû - 19:19

Hi again

FX is right.
But I wouldn't go too early in such subtle (and often controversial) complications we have to delineate awards in France. Even the French are sometimes lost in understanding it...
For example, during a period before the award described by FX, you could get a citation "without cross", even at high level... (that is to say having only the paper and not the cross).
You can imagine the disappointment of the recipients...

Yours
Bison
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victor2
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MessageSujet: Re: Question about "Croix de Guerre" and other crosses   Mar 24 Aoû - 3:43

Bison a écrit:
You can imagine the disappointment of the recipients...


Good morning!

Can the person which received the "citation" without cross buy and wear the cross?

My friend spoke, that the Legion of Honour for services in battle gave citing at the level of army.
And it, in its turn, automatically gave a military cross with palm. Has deserved one award, has received a bonus!
Is it right? And how to distinguish it's one general award for the person, or a cross was received for other big feat?
What is a thing - a military cross!?

Have a nice day to all :ban:
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victor2
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Date d'inscription: 11/08/2010
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MessageSujet: Re: Question about "Croix de Guerre" and other crosses   Mer 25 Aoû - 17:59

Good evening!
Please, tell me why the kind of this cross differs from the standard?
I understand that it maybe a different manufacturers, but is it really so?
Is it possible to make such differences?

I have information that there was not a lot of awarding for Korea, is it rare cross?
Thanks.
Best regards,
Victor.
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Bison
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MessageSujet: Re: Question about "Croix de Guerre" and other crosses   Mer 25 Aoû - 19:05

Hi Victor,

This cross is the "croix du combattant volontaire. This model is made by a private manufacturer, and is bigger than the 'official' model (and other details differ).

It is a cross delivered to volunteers. Recipients are those who were not obliged to take part to the conflict. They were not professional or still conscript, for example. It is not delivered for bravery. Being volunteer to fight and having served effectively in a fighting unit are the conditions for being awarded.

You are true when you write that a few have been delivered with the "Corée" bar. France had just a battalion there. But keep in mind that the manufacturers have made a huge stock!

There are actually different models. You can find in the forum a lot of examples if you ask "volontaire" in the "rechercher" button.

Regards
Bison
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victor2
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Masculin
Age: 47
Localisation: Russie
Thème: Different beautiful awards
Date d'inscription: 11/08/2010
Nombre de messages: 45

MessageSujet: Re: Question about "Croix de Guerre" and other crosses   Jeu 26 Aoû - 8:03

Hello!
As I have understood it calls "the big head". This version exists since 1914.
Have you information what manufacturer is it?

Regards,
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