Hi,

I always miss a bit of logic on this.......

Medaille Coloniale... sure, I understand... Colonies etc. etc.

Then Medaille D'outre Mer... I still understand... overseas etc. etc.

What I don't understand is the medaille commemorative?

If the Golfe was a "Moyen Orient" bar on a medaille d'outre Mer.... why is "Afghanistan" or "Haiti" not on the Medaille d#outre Mer?

If the Golfe took place now instead of 1991... would it NOW be on the Medaille commemorative?

AND, another question.... as the Medaille d'outre Mer AND the Medaille commenorative are for overseas operations... why is the OM in front of the Defense nationale and the medaille commemorative behind the defence nationale on the medal bar? I would have thought they would have the same status?

Merci
Chris

Chris,

I think the reason is that the "Médaille Commémorative" is a commemorative medal as the name suggests whereas the others are considered to be decorations.
And, among these decorations, the Médaille Coloniale (and later its successor, the Médaille d'Outre Mer) is more prestigious - overseas service always counts higher in any country - than the Médaille de la Défense Nationale, as well as being instituted earlier.

Logic ? I think there is

Merry Xmas & best wishes for a happy 2009 !
Hendrik

Hi,

But what makes service in Afghanistan LESS prestigious than service in Tchad? Or Cambodia in the early 90s?

My time in Ex-Yougoslavie was way more exciting than my time in Tchad.... there is no logical reason why the Tchad is more prestigious... and for the guys in Afghanistan... that is less impressive than service in Cambodia in the early 90#s???

I am not sure....

Best
Chris

Hi Chris :noel1:

I think it is not a question of prestige... And I agree, my tour in Bosnia in 1993 was more exciting than in Lebanon in 1992, and less than in Ivory Coast in 2005... and so on.

I do not know the exact reason, but it could be a geographical one. The médaille d'outre mer is for Africa, Middle East and Far East... All other destinations (Haïti, Afghanistan, East Europe) is for the Commémorative française...

Why ? I don't know... and as we say in the French Army (and probably in many other armies) : "try to understand is the way to disobey" "chercher à comprendre c'est commencer à désobéir".

But you are right in asking !
Kind regards and merry Christmas
Bison

Hi Bison,

The prestige issue concerns WHERE the medal is on a bar. The OM has OPEX and is before the Defense Nationale, the Commemo has OPEX and is after the DN. It is illogical.

As far as distance goes... Cambodia is very far... but is on the OM.

I have heard the theory that only Ex-French colonies come on the OM, but then why would operation Daguet be on it?

Have and new bars been added to the OM since the Commemorative was introduced? Maybe they just want to let the OM die off and have the Commemorative take its place?

There must have been reasons for all this, official reasons, that are available to read?

Best
Chris

Hello ,

I must recognize that the rank of OM and MCF is a little bit confusing... but has to be considered as the inheiritage of the rank given to the former Medaille Coloniale which was ranked before all campain medals.
To answer to your previous question, since the creation of the MCF, the bars "Republique du Congo", "Republique de Cote d'Ivoire" and "Republique Democratique du Congo" for the OM have been created ( and also "Republique Centrafricaine" given again for the operation "Boali")... and during the same time the bar "Asie du Sud-Est" has been created for the MCF (in this case, the use of the "Extreme-Orient" bar on the OM could have been more logical!)...

There is in fact no real established rule concerning the use of OM or MCF to commemorate military campains, except when operations take place in former colonies or protectorates. As the change from Coloniale to Outre-Mer was made without changing all previous official decrees, the OM is supposed to continue to be awarded only for campains performed in former french colonies or protectorates. Perhaps, due to the place of Irak, just near the former Syria french protectorate can explain the creation of the bar "Moyen-Orient" in 1991? (and also perhaps the will to not create a new specific campain medal?)

But, in the way of considering medals, except the place, there is no more prestige for the OM than for the MCF as this medal is also awarded for real combat operations...

French "cartesian" spirit is always surprising!

Best regards :noel4:

PS: as all the decrees for the Colonial Medal are old and numerous, I can not give you all, but for the MCF you can find here the official creation decree and more if you want http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000000736625&categorieLien=cid

Hi Marcel,

Merci for the answer.

I realise that there is no extra prestige for the OM, but from a phaleristic point of view, the order on the medal bar is an order of prestige. I think this was overlooked with the commemorative.

Military logic is always confusing :-)

Best
Chris